foreign
I'd like to go ahead and start today's
Gas and Oil board meeting I'm the I'm
Bill Harris I'll be chairing the meeting
today in the absence of our normal chair
who's out of town
uh and so uh I am a public member
and I'd like for the other members to
introduce themselves other board members
to introduce themselves and we'll start
with Rita serato's to my right
public member
Chris Jansen public member
um Willard Cochran
from November for the industry Nursery
I represent the oil and gas industry for
the ward
and Donald Ratliff and I represent the
cold side
Mary Quillen public member
okay
so uh thank you all for the
introductions and I think we'll go ahead
and proceed to
um the suggestion that Mr Lansing uh if
that's okay with the other folks present
uh uh introduce and present to us the
policy and that way hopefully if uh it's
approved we can go ahead and have full
comment from folks who have uh called in
so yeah that's Lansing if you want to go
ahead and do that
I would be happy to
um Mr chairman members of the board you
have a uh draft electronic meeting
policy that is on your agenda for today
we are going to uh well I understand we
may move we at the suggestion of the
chair we're moving that up in the agenda
in order to allow uh several members of
the board to participate remotely today
uh this policy is designed to give
effect to amendments that were
introduced by the general assembly uh
back in September of 2022. and uh as you
may remember of course we went through a
pandemic and during that pandemic I'm
guessing that you all probably got used
to the idea of being able to have
meetings electronically because the
general assembly temporarily gave
permission
to various different public Ballers of
various different public bodies to do
that during the pandemic
but once the pandemic ended the general
assembly then had to ask the question
are we going to allow this to happen on
a regular basis are we going to keep
allowing public bodies to meet
electronically and uh and if we do what
policies are we going to put in place to
allow that
well the general assembly basically gave
the answer you know we're we're okay
with doing that but we're not very happy
about it and so they adopted some
amendments in September that allowed for
these electronic meetings to take place
but with uh significantly more
restrictions that were in place during
the pandemic and the whole philosophy
that seems to underlie these amendments
that went into effect in September
is a philosophy that expresses a strong
uh favor and preference for public
bodies meeting in person not
electronically uh obviously for some
public bodies that can be more difficult
than for other public bodies of course
for the Virginia Gas and Oil board you
have a public body that has people from
all over the state
meeting in the southwestern portion of
the state and I'm guessing it's probably
a little more difficult to get people
together in person than it is uh for a
lot of other public bodies where their
members are all located in Richmond
Virginia or in some other place
but that's just the limitation that
we're dealing with uh in in light of
what the law gives us so uh let's go
over two different categories of
meetings that the general assembly has
laid out for us the first of those is
situations where a public body is
meeting with a quorum that is physically
assembled in one place
the second category is where the entire
meeting is taking place electronically
that means everybody's dialing in from
their homes so we'll we'll look at that
first category first because that's
probably what you all are more used to
doing uh under the first category uh
this is something that to some extent
has been allowed for a long time even
prior to the pandemic but uh as of the
September amendments there's a new uh
big change in place and that is the
requirement
that uh whenever you were meeting and
someone is dialing in remotely you still
have to have a quorum that is physically
assembled that means most people meeting
have to be meeting in person uh that's
probably the big game changer for us in
some ways the law got a little bit more
flexible for example it gave more
reasons for a public body uh more
Indulgence in being able to uh to meet
remotely so in the past it had to be a
medical condition or a temporary or
permanent disability
or a personal matter now we have some
extra reasons for example uh living UH
60 miles or more away I'm going to pull
up a document in a minute that I had
planned to have pulled up at the at the
end of this meeting when uh when it was
going to be my turn to to give this and
I'm going to go over those uh those
reasons give me just a second
all right so the four reasons that you
have that allow you to meet uh to to
dial in remotely as a few members have
today our first a disability or a
medical condition that reason is old
that's existed for a long time
the second is a family member's medical
condition so if you need to take care of
a family member who has covid or some
other medical condition uh of any kind
then that is its own reason it's
Standalone reason for being able to dial
in remotely
the third reason that would allow you to
dial in remotely is that the meeting
location is more than 60 miles from your
principal residence
it's really important to make sure we
don't get confused over this because
principal residence is different from
location it's not enough for you to be
60 miles away from the meeting location
you have to actually live 60 miles away
so if you are currently located in
Richmond but you live in Big Stone Gap
and the meeting is taking place in Big
Stone Gap then that meeting is not going
to suffice you actually have to live 60
miles or more away
the last reason is sort of the catch-all
reason and that is a personal matter the
general assembly didn't tell us exactly
what a personal matter is it's just
anything that doesn't fall under any of
the other reasons but if you're going to
use that catch-all reason if you're
going to use personal matter as your
reason then there are a lot more
restrictions on it the big one is the
personal reason has to be identified
with specificity
and the other thing is that there's a
cap on the number of times you can use
that personal matter it's limited to two
meetings per year or 25 of the meetings
that you hold uh in total you'll meet
quarterly is that right
monthly uh monthly okay all right so
then if you're meeting every month then
25 you know that's that's going to be
generally about three meetings uh it's
only about three meetings per year that
you can use a personal matter uh as your
reason for dialing in remotely
and that means you need to keep track in
the minutes uh and in your other records
of how many times uh in each calendar
year you're dialing in for a personal
reason as opposed to any of the other
three reasons
um so uh to keep track of those and of
course the secretary should keep track
of them as well if you're dialing in
remotely for any other reason then
there's no cap on the number of times
that you can dial in remotely for
example you could dial in say three out
of 12 times because you have a medical
condition that prevents you from
attending in person uh and then maybe
you could dial in
um another three times for some generic
catch-all personal reason
uh as I mentioned for those first three
reasons out of four
there's no limit on the amount of times
you can dial in remotely
um but you still should do everything
you can to attend in person and can can
you guess why even if you have a good
valid legal reason for dialing in
remotely why should you try to be there
in person even if you're otherwise
authorized to dial in remotely
I'm going to take volunteers from the
crowd here anybody want to take a stab
at that
I guess it gives a better appearance to
the public if
if it's a public meeting and we have
members of the board actually physically
there
yeah I think that probably underlies
what what the general assembly had in
mind but there's one other big reason
why even if you can dial in remotely you
should try to avoid it if you can
can anybody definitely take a stab as to
what that might be
in there in person and being able to
interact with the others is important
plus if there's visuals that's been
printed passed out we don't have an
opportunity to see those
okay
um that's definitely another real reason
but there's a big practical reason that
can really mess things up potentially uh
if you dial in remotely even if someone
could easily pose as someone else
no no I'll just I'll give you the answer
if you have if you're thinking of
dialing in remotely odds are somebody
else might be thinking about dialing in
remotely too uh and if too many people
dial in remotely then you don't have a
quorum so we're in good shape today
because we have a quorum that's
physically assembled uh even though we
have a few people dialing in remotely uh
we we still have a quorum that's present
a little while ago I was uh I was there
as counsel for a meeting that was taking
place in Richmond
and at this meeting we were going to
adopt our new electronic policy our new
electronic meeting policy uh to take
into effect these amendments that went
into effect in September and I think
word got around that we were adopting a
new electronic meeting policy and people
got excited about it and they started
saying oh well we're having a remote
participation policy I'm just going to
participate remotely the problem is that
a lot of people said that and in fact
more than half of the people said that
and so we actually had a minority of
people attending in person and so we
just weren't able to meet
um and if if that happens if we get too
excited about remote participation then
we just can't meet at all it's always
essential to have
a quorum of people physically assembled
so even if you can attend remotely try
to avoid it if at all possible uh we're
in good shape today
um but uh just make sure that you attend
whenever you can in person
all right
um so
after you have made your request to
participate remotely it then needs to be
approved by two different people
the first is it needs preliminary
approval from the chairman and then
second it needs to be approved by the
board at large
um and the Board needs to basically
ratify the decision of the chair
it's important to emphasize this is a
right or wrong decision
so we're not just deciding whether we
want this board member to be able to
vote or whether we like the idea of this
board member being able to participate
remotely
this is a technical decision where the
board and the chair are simply making
the decision about whether it is legal
for this person to participate remotely
if it is legal then the board has to
admit the person they're required to
admit the person
and if it isn't legal if they don't meet
the legal qualifications then the chair
and the board are each required to
disapprove that person from being able
to attend remotely so what the Freedom
of Information Act tells us is that has
to be strictly and uniformly applied
and of course I can help in determining
whether all of this is is being done
legally
um I can tell you now in my opinion uh
everyone who wants to participate
remotely today has a legal reason for
doing it that is in part due to the fact
that this is our our first meeting of
the year and so the the clock has reset
we're now on a new calendar year
so no one has had any no one has maxed
out on their reasons for attending for a
personal reason as long as it's
identified with specificity you're
you're good to go and also we have a
quorum that's physically attend uh
physically in attendance so that also
helps us out but at some point later on
in the year we might get to the point
where someone is maxed out on their
personal reasons
um and they don't have a valid other
reason for attending or we might get to
the point where uh where maybe we don't
have a quorum physically assembled and
either one of those
would be a classic reason for not being
able to allow someone to participate
remotely or not being able to meet at
all
um I'm gonna stop there and just see if
there are any questions uh before I go
any further does anybody have any
questions about what I've covered so far
uh yes uh this is Mary Quillen
um when we've said that we meet every
month uh since the pandemic we have
only met every other month and sometimes
with a span of three uh dates in between
okay during the pandemic that may have
been completely fine uh but now at this
point with the September amendments we
we have new rules in place that will we
will have to follow
well
my understanding is that the the and
depends on
the number of items on the agenda if we
have enough items on the agenda or
applications in order to call meeting
for that specified data and that
specified month
I'm sorry
you're saying if if we have enough items
on the agenda we can allow remote
participation regardless no no no no no
no no
there are a number I've I've right off
the top of my head I don't have the
information in front of me of the number
of of meetings we have actually had uh
in 2022 I believe it was six but I'm not
positive
uh so is this going to the same
restrictions apply to the number by the
number of times that you have to to uh
participate remotely yeah are you
talking about six old virtual meetings
where in in those six occasions
everybody was diving in remotely there
wasn't enough there wasn't enough
business to justify us coming to a
meeting in other words some of them
there was only maybe two items or
something like this and it was items
that could be handled easily by the dmme
yeah okay let me jump in a second and I
think there's two different streams
going on uh Miss Lansing you were saying
that since we are scheduled to meet
monthly then that's 12 meetings a year
and you're saying 25 of those and that's
where your three meetings came from and
I think what these folks are saying is
we don't necessarily have 12 meetings a
year right so it's actually uh uh I
won't say it's always less but often
it's less than that especially in this
day and time where uh uh if we if we
don't have a minimum number of
applications then we carry over carry
those over to the next month's meeting
but we don't know until we get uh items
in uh well we probably know now if we're
going to meet next month but we don't
know two months from now it's not
automatically that we're scheduled to
meet so when you're talking 25 percent
yeah that's uh I think that's maybe
where where we're kind of looking at
well
you know how do we count the numbers
yeah how do we count the numbers at the
beginning of the year when we don't know
exactly how many times in the year we'll
meet yes yeah that's a good question uh
my recommendation would be to err on the
safe side and just to back up a little
let me make sure that the rule is is
clear to everybody the rule is you can
have remote participation for each
member
at two times per year for a personal
reason for a personal reason it can be
two times per year or 25 of the meetings
in the calendar year whichever is more
so if you have 12 meetings then 25
percent is three
um but if you have uh if you have six
meetings then 25 percent is two
um so what what I would recommend is
that you just stick with two as your
number
uh until you know for sure that 25 is
more than two does that make sense
uh yes yeah yeah so air on the safe side
as long as they're not grilling we're
not going to have very many meetings
uh most of the stuff that is coming
through for the board to participate on
is stuff that has to do
with their production something that is
already in in fact the the meetings that
we have had for the last year most of it
has been
the information that really we voted on
that we knew
what the pre-existing
uh
affirmations is going to be on these
things in other we really didn't need it
the reason we needed the meeting was to
help the public
but but the but the things that we're
doing in other words if they were
drilling Wells and this that and the
other I can participate in that and help
them a lot but when you're not building
Wells and all you're doing is having
information
for the state's benefit
which
normally
stuff that we don't
ever vote against
so that that's what we've been doing for
the last two or three years and until
they get back to grilling we're still
going to have a small small items on our
on our agenda
just to interject the question I think
could be is is this board have the
authority on its own to not meet if we
don't have a number of a number of items
on the board if we only have one item
that needs to be addressed should we be
meeting or can we carry that meeting
forward until we have more items on the
agenda uh is that
uh well that wouldn't be a foia question
I I think that would be a question that
would relate more to
what the state code says about your
governing law I think you can carry it
forward
uh I I don't think there is a deadline
on uh saying you you have to act now but
uh I would need to check through uh the
Virginia administrative code and the
state code uh Provisions that relate
specifically to the Gas and Oil board to
make sure I know the answer to that and
I have a feeling Sarah might know the
answer to that uh I know this last
meeting we were planning on meeting in
January and we were able to to punt that
off until February and I don't know of
any problem with having done that
um yeah I guess there's two issues there
I think January we did not have a quorum
we weren't going to have a quorum is why
we weren't going to meet in January yeah
so and I assuming that's always a valid
reason for not meeting if you don't have
a quorum right but is it a valid reason
if we don't if we only have one item on
the docket should we be meeting or
should we
be able to move that can we have that
policy in place yeah I think that's a
question is where that policy has
actually ever been voted on by the board
yeah I I think that that is a valid
reason but let me get back to you on
that and I'll check if you could check
that that'd be great yes sir
all right
I'm sorry if if we're going to be uh
demanded to be in attention down there
attending
uh for one item I think we'll be paid
for it
I mean it's ridiculous
I mean I I don't need the money or
anything else but I think it's rather
the position to go down there for two or
three items that really don't mean a
whole heck of a lot now when you're
drilling Wells yeah I can understand
what we're talking about
but when actually what we're doing is
going down there approving small items
the the state requires and it could be
done I mean it really doesn't need
support
and I think and the other thing is that
the other thing is that no one that has
served on this board I have served on
this board for almost 20 years and no
one has ever abused any of those uh
Provisions everyone that has served on
that board since I have been
on it
has been very diligent about making sure
that they were there and and certainly
was there to participate and and and
provide
um their opinions and their insights
into different
um questions that we are are dressing at
every meeting and I mean it it's like
that the board is being accused
of
taking advantage of these opportunities
and and that certainly is not the truth
and not from anybody and like I said
we've seen a lot of different members on
the board and I've been on this board a
long time and
I I
have missed very few very few meetings
that and one other my husband passed
away and the one in January that I could
not attend I was having major surgery
and I don't think that's abusing or
taking advantage of not coming in to a
meeting
certainly not
yeah Miss Quillen um
of course I'm I'm new to this board so
um thank you for having participated in
it for 20 years that's a uh that's
that's quite a quite a dedication
and uh I certainly know very dedicated
yeah it sure sounds like it
um I certainly don't want anything I've
said to
um
to sound like
um well in anything like a an accusation
at all or a statement about this board
uh I'm all I'm doing is is simply
telling the rules that have been given
to us by the general assembly and those
rules apply to every public body not
just the Virginia Gas and Oil board
um it's not that the general assembly
doesn't trust us it's not that the
general assembly thinks that the gas and
oil board is abusing anything
these are the rules that apply to
everybody including to the general
assembly itself
that common
common Fraser said about heading one or
two items
you know
have you bought a gallon of gas recently
of course it's an inconvenience
and
and using good Common Sense which is
what these folks in the department
they're in Big Stone Gap are making
these good decisions looking out for the
members of the board for the people that
we are serving
and I mean to me
it's kind of ridiculous to say you're
going to have a meeting if you only have
one or two uh items on the agenda
I just don't think that makes good
common economic sense to begin with but
it is but these people are div and and
being paid for this we have never been
paid for anything
since the longest I have been on on this
board and and I don't I mean and
the people have given of their time and
their expertise and
we have done with this board we have
done
a miraculous job of handling all of the
um challenges that this board has had I
was on this board
at the time that there were
someday some meetings
that they would run for two days from
early morning to late in the afternoon
for two days this is in as what Mr
Prather said when when you're not
drilling you don't have all of those
items on the agenda
until we do see some drilling to begin I
mean I think that I think that our folks
there in Big Stone have done a very good
job made very good decisions and I think
that should be addressed and whether
it's addressed with the general assembly
or whoever
because I think they are making the
right decisions
about the number of items on the agenda
and and
you can't always
plan far enough in advance it'd be
wonderful if we could
but you can't plan in advance when there
is going to be something that comes up
in your personal life that you're giving
your time
that's just my opinion
I guess we need to try to move on uh Mr
Lansing I know you're just the messenger
in this
um and of course the the messenger
sometimes pays the penalty of people are
unhappy
um but uh
I
and what we're saying about small items
for the meeting if you know if we have
that small number we don't we we usually
bump the meeting to the next month
um
and so I don't I don't see this as
you're asking us to attend 12 meetings a
year even if we have one item I mean I I
didn't read that into the policy
but what you're saying is when we do
have meetings we have to have a quorum
here and those who are not here have to
have a what the general assembly
considers a legitimate excuse for not
for not being that's right
whether the we have
I'm not addressing the question you've
always been required to have a quorum
before we have a meeting yeah always
Miss chairman this is Donnie and I don't
want to prolong this but I've got one
question I think he can answer with yes
or no what about our clients that come
to us for petitions for a particular
month can they participate
electronically
and present their risk okay yeah anyone
who's not a member of the board doesn't
need to have a reason for dialing in
remotely so for example I'm dialing in
remotely I don't need to have a reason
for dialing in remotely we don't need to
have a policy allowing me to do that
because I'm not a member of the board
um so this policy only applies to actual
members of the board
okay I just want to clear factors that
question would come up thank you sir all
right let's move on to the next uh
portion of what this meeting addresses
or what this policy addresses rather so
the first component dealt with remote
participation that's where you have a
quorum that's physically assembled in
one place and then you have individual
members who are participating remotely
the next portion which is article 3 of
this policy deals with what the general
assembly calls all virtual meetings and
all virtual meetings are where everybody
is dialing in remotely there is no one
physical location for the meeting
uh this is something that of course we
got into the habit of doing on a regular
basis uh during the pandemic and the
general assembly made some temporary
allowance for it uh but uh when the
pandemic was over uh that law met its
Sunset and then the general assembly
said we'll we'll make some permanent
Provisions allowing for it but uh we're
not going to be very we're not going to
be as generous or or as uh as loose with
allowing them as we were during the
pandemic
so the big rule about all virtual
meetings is that they are only allowed
every other time so you can't have two
all virtual meetings in a row
between any two all virtual meetings you
have to have at least one meeting where
Quorum of people are physically
assembled
and as with
remote participation for a personal
reason you also have that cap of two
meetings per year
or 25 percent whichever is greater so I
we'll just stick with two because that's
the easy number to give and that's the
predictable number to give you can't
have more than two all virtual meetings
per year at the end of the year we might
be able to have a third one if we've had
enough meetings
the meeting notice has to specify that
the meeting is all virtual so for
example if we're planning on attending
in person and the notice for the meeting
has advertised the meeting as taking
place here in Big Stone Gap
but we don't have a quorum of people
physically assembled we can't get out of
that uh that monk by just turning it
into an all virtual meeting if it wasn't
noticed it's all virtual then it can't
be over it will it can only be in person
with the Quorum physically assembled and
of course as I think you already know
you have to provide Public Access for an
all virtual meeting that means that if
you're meeting remotely online then the
online world needs to be able to see
your meeting
the last thing I'll just add is that
um this this whole policy allows for
Committees of the board to do the same
thing I don't know if y'all even have
committees for the Virginia oil and gas
board though do you
uh no we uh only on special occasions
yeah past committees in the past
traditionally don't yes okay so if
somehow for some reason you need to
create a committee and the committee
would like to meet online or allow
remote participation this policy can be
used for the purpose of doing that
so that's the end of my explanation of
the policy uh do you all y'all have any
questions about uh the remainder of what
I've covered
so going forward I'm sorry go ahead
go ahead
well I was just saying going forward
uh today what do I need to do is to give
approval for those folks who are
here virtually and then have the rest of
the members here vote on that or
that's right by virtue of emotion or do
I just make a decree that they have
acceptable reasons since you're here who
can verify that I mean what
I guess the first motion should be that
we adopt this policy is that the first
motion that needs to take place that's
right Mr chair the first thing you would
do is is hold a vote to adopt this
policy uh and then we can take it from
there I can explain how we adopt how we
admit the individual members from that
point on
one last question on the virtual
meetings if we schedule a virtual
meeting say for the next month for
whatever reason we don't need to have
that meeting does that count as a
scheduled virtual meeting or does it
just sort of go away
if we if we cancel the meeting if
there's no no nothing to have on the
docket good question
sometimes we may or may not know if we
need to have a meeting the next month
right we could schedule it virtually if
we weren't sure
and then if it didn't have it we could
just cancel it and then it wouldn't
count against us in the in the number of
meetings that's right it doesn't count
unless you actually hold the meeting
okay
okay well I guess what I need to do then
is entertain a motion to approve the
policy uh that's been presented so I'll
make the motion to include the policy is
presented by Mr Lansing today so Mr
Jansen made the motion do we have a
second uh Rita seconded
uh any further discussion from board
members here let me do it that way
all in favor
the only thing I'll say is I don't
Envision unless unless they change the
drilling rules
to where people get back to drilling uh
the amount of business going through
this board is going to be very little
for the next until until they change
this drilling thing
um
Mr President yeah we can we can address
Dan after
this because I don't think this impacts
uh I mean the fact that you're more than
60 miles away to begin with
uh is one of the reasons given for
attending virtually
but um
from the meeting
that really I was needed there
yes I understand
I understand well there's a motion on
the floor and I guess we need to take a
vote of board members who are here since
we do have a quorum
um and uh we'll ask Ms government to do
that would you go ahead or do we want to
yes
Mr Jansen yes
Mr Cochran yes
okay so that motion is approved
and uh
only the people who are there in person
is that right I'm sorry the the motion
was made and approved by people who are
here in person yes okay wonderful okay
so the next thing uh that would take
place to admit the people who were
attending uh remotely is a determination
by the chair that that's allowed that
doesn't require emotion it's just a
decision that the chair makes that's
announced by him
okay well as acting chair this uh
meeting then uh we
will allow the folks who are
um participating remotely
to become official board member
participants for this meeting uh we have
Mary Quillen
Bruce
Prather Donald Ratliff was there someone
else who was there
as a board member
okay so those three folks have discussed
their reasons for not being here and we
would deem that being approved and so
therefore we uh I would deem them
eligible now I don't know if I can do
that but I'll do them in eligible to
participate in today's meeting
if that
well done uh the next component then is
for the board to ratify the chair's
decision and so if you look at the back
of your uh of your policies I've given
you some resolutions
to be filled out don't worry I've done
that for you this time
um but uh for future meetings I would I
would suggest collect that information
in advance so that the resolution can be
filled out right there
um and uh and then you can move from
from there this resolution it's I I know
it's a it's a pain in the rear end to to
fill out forms
um but I think this form you'll find is
very you're going to find that it's very
helpful
um the reason
is you know we went over a lot of rules
today in this electronic meeting policy
and of course it's easy to break one of
the rules with you know perfectly good
intentions and and trying to do it right
it's it's easy to miss something
the design of this form if you fill it
out in a pretty intuitive way is that uh
when you're admitting someone to be
participating remotely or if you're
denying someone from participating
remotely if you're filling out the form
in a pretty intuitive way then you
should be able to comply with all of
those rules uh that's at least that's at
least the goal behind the the form uh
can I ask you a question I'm sorry yes
sir
uh this is under Annex a I guess it's
the resolution approving remote
attendance of a meeting uh member
that's right yeah so I just tried to
fill in this cannot be done
electronically so this has to be done I
remember who's not going to be here
print this out fill it out mail it in or
fax it in is that
what is going to be required no it can
be done electronically
um and in fact all you really have to do
if you're a member who is wanting to
participate remotely just give me a
heads up the day before and just say I'm
wanting to participate remotely
um here's where I'm going to be here's
the reason why I can't be there and then
I'll fill it out for you and if I have
any other questions I'll just ask
okay
so
um I I hate to take up any more speaking
time than I already have but here's what
I'm going to do I'm going to read out
this resolution and you'll stop me and
make sure that everything I'm reading is
correct if I say anything that isn't
right like if I say that you're dialing
in from a place you're not dialing in
from
uh then please jump in interrupt me and
correct me so that I can get the
resolution right you all ready
whereas the board has met with a quorum
physically assembled in one location on
the date at this resolution whereas Mary
Quillen Bruce Prater
and Donald Ratliff the members desire to
participate remotely in set meeting due
to a temporary or permanent disability
or other medical condition that prevents
the member's physical attendance in the
case of Miss Quillen and a personal
matter the specific nature of which is
presence enrichment in the case of Mr
Prater
and delays you to travel in the case of
Mr
Prather
p-h-e-r-p-r-a-t-h-e-r yeah okay great
I've got that corrected and uh one of
the Mr Ratliff is the one that's in
Richmond
Mr Ratliff is the one in Richmond okay
all right so I'm sorry Mr Prather can
you remind me where you are and uh and
why you're dialing in remotely then
well I'm in Clarksburg West Virginia
visiting center my wife died five years
ago
and uh
I still have my residence in Abingdon
Virginia but I live with my daughter
up here in Parkersburg West Virginia
okay if anybody told me that I had to be
down there physically I would have been
there
I mean I I don't understand
why why are you getting this type of
stuff now because
like I say uh you can check back on my
historic uh record of attendance and
you'll see that I've been there most of
the times yes sir
that makes sense I uh
I'm just trying to fill out the form in
a way that makes sense well now I think
if I say that you're if I say that
you're in West Virginia then that's a
good enough reason to to satisfy what we
need to fill out with us there's another
reason too I've got a sister that's 100
years old and she's in the hospital
committed in Texas and I got back from
Midland yesterday
okay
all right
um so what I'm gonna what I'm gonna put
down is a personal matter the specific
nature of which is presence in West
Virginia in the case of Mr Prather and
presence in Richmond in the case of Mr
Ratliff does that work
uh that should yeah okay
these members have previously attended a
remote meeting for personal reasons zero
times this calendar year and this amount
does not exceed the maximum allowance of
remote participation of meetings due to
a personal reason
for those members for this calendar year
whereas the members are participating
remotely from Richmond
and the case of Mr Ratliff
uh her home in the case of Miss Quillen
and West Virginia
in the case of Mr Prather
whereas the members have notified the
chair
prior to the beginning of the meeting of
the members request to participate
remotely and of the reasons for that
request and the chair has approved those
requests
now therefore the board hereby ratifies
the determination of the chair
that the members May participate
remotely
and Halls of the chair's determination
was consistent with the written policy
regarding remote participation
the secretary or clerk is hereby
directed to include a copy of this
resolution in the minutes for this
meeting
so if you all agree with that you can
just say so moved and then you can vote
on it
so moved
I have a question who is responsible for
filling out these forms at the meetings
who's going to be responsible for that
Miss quill and I'm planning on being
with you to assist anytime y'all meet
going forward so if you ever need
someone to fill out that form I'm happy
to do it
um or you can have uh you can also have
Sarah do it uh any anyone any one of us
can fill that out for y'all that's
amazing I'm not asking if somebody can
fill it out who's responsible for it
I'm I'm Sorry Miss Quillen I I don't
think I understand the question then
you're filling them out today who's
going to fill them out next month
are you going to be there to fill them
out next month yes ma'am
I certainly intend to be
I think uh
so either you or
um we'll get Sarah to fill those out but
but if you all are not I guess in
general if you all are know that you're
not going to make the meeting and we'll
have to dial in remotely if you all will
contact the gasoline Board office uh
early enough so that we can make the
proper forms uh signed filled out and
whatnot
um so I think as a general statement I
think we can go with that
signed by who
someone from the gas and oil board or
someone from the government the chairman
would have to ultimately sign the
approval
so
you all would have to communicate that
through the gas and old Board office and
the chair would ultimately sign that as
approved
for
um
remote access for that particular board
member that's my understanding
and that's on your behalf so you would
have to initiate that
you need to come
so do we need to vote so do we need to
vote on something
yes you would need to vote on adopting
the resolution that I just read
I understand there's there's already a
emotion on the table okay uh I'll call
everybody's name out and you can let us
know how you know that thank you Rita's
rap yes Bill Harris yes Gus Jansen yes
Willie Cochran yes Mary quillin
how will it stain
Bruce praying through
I'm sorry I I'm sorry to interrupt here
the only people voting as of now can be
people who are physically in attendance
so people dialing in remotely they
haven't been admitted into the meeting
yet and so they can't vote on on this
resolution
okay and if people let me know ahead of
time that they're not going to be there
we'll get the forms filled out and we'll
have the chairman sign on the day of the
meeting it's no problem
well I guess as chair of the motion or
uh
motion would carry since the board
members president did approve that
yes that's right as long as you have a
quorum of the people who've approved it
then they're they're now admitted into
the meeting yes
Okay so
we can legally admit
uh
yes
as
um
we've got the best staff and any agency
in Virginia and they take care of us so
well I don't see a problem or a hassle
with this thing
uh okay yeah I don't I don't see it
either my um
well I I well anyway
I'm going to let this go because you
know my only concern was again as I
stated to outset you know this would
have been something good to discuss
meeting and then our next meeting we go
through these things I just uh it's it's
just
I guess kind of odd to do this at the
meeting where you're voting whether or
not people can participate in the
meeting but that's just a commentary so
just ignore that
sorry that's just my personal opinion
you're doing an outstanding job carry on
okay so are are we through with this
issue then or do we need to is there
something else
uh we are through with it my my role in
this meeting is done unless you call on
me for any questions
okay
yeah
okay I guess we can move forward to the
agenda then uh the board will receive
public comments there's anyone here to
not seeing anyone we're going to move on
to the next item this is item number two
and the
First Bank and Trust Company escrow
agent for the Virginia oil and gas board
will appear to address the board on the
quarterly slash end of year report uh we
have someone from
the bank
yes sir I'm here can anybody hear me is
this Miss Manny
okay good uh welcome
Mars with the delay in getting started
that's quite all right we'll we'll go
through the end of the year statement
even though it's close to the end of
February now it's a a little delayed in
the statement but this is our fourth
quarter report
I'm assuming that everybody has a copy
of it
I'm assuming everybody has an electronic
copy of it correct
uh yes we were we received that from uh
the board
from the from the office yes
we'll start
I started out with a big
of 5 million 148 125.73
we received in deposits for the quarter
of 66 896.52
interest earned between the money market
account and the CDs that we had was four
thousand three hundred eighty dollars
and 87 cents for the quarter the fees
deducted were 4 377.95
we paid out distributions for the
quarter of sixty thousand five hundred
sixty two dollars and fifty Seven cents
leaving us an ending balance as of 12.31
of five million one hundred fifty four
thousand four hundred sixty two dollars
and sixty cents
foreign just a review of 2022 we paid
out 56 dockets that were treasury
dockets
totaling 805 201.26
we processed 49 other dockets totaling
750
342.62 cents
over 775 checks were issued in 2022 and
they range from one penny
to over four hundred and thirty two
thousand dollars
we issued 460 checks that were less than
one hundred dollars and 82 of those
checks were less than one dollar
now starting on page five
this is a list of all of the outstanding
checks that were issued as of December
31st 2022.
and sorry for the long list of
outstanding checks
that goes through Page 27
and so we have a total of almost one
hundred thousand dollars that is
outstanding
and since this report was as of December
the 31st some of those may have fallen
off now
um if you look at the last page there
was some that was issued 12 14 2022
so those could have been cashed by now
roughly a hundred thousand dollars was
uncashed so far
um page 28 starts our check is treatment
and this is another long list of names
that will be exceeded to this state
this year
there's a little over three thousand
dollars so the list is long but the
dollar amount is not huge
starting on page 36 this is a list of
all of the accounts
by number unit name
their beginning balance in each account
the deposits that were received for the
month of December
the interest the fees deducted
any distributions from that account
transfers the no W9 spreadsheet
audit costs Corrections and then the
ending value for each individual account
as of 12 31.
so that goes all the way through page
number 46.
page 47 starts our list of no w9s so
these people were on dockets and they
have not submitted their W-9 information
desk to receive their payment
so on that list there's
427 lines
but as you can see some of those names
are duplicated
yes
so we have a total of 39
940.31 cents
that has been on dockets that needs to
be claimed by these people and if they
would send W9 information in
we could pay them out directly
page 58 is our list of annual
distributions since First Bank and Trust
has taken over as escrow agent in
2010
so we've paid out a total of
36 million one hundred eighty two
dollars 182 632 dollars
and received in a little over 15 million
in royalty and working income
page 59
is our investment of the funds
so you can see as of 1231
we had money market account
we had three CDs remaining
for 250 000 each and the maturity date
is on those
so one is coming due early March one is
coming due in June and one coming due in
September
now our rate comparison on page 60.
we have the Cedars rates which have not
changed
the treasury rates which have changed
from October
and the CD rates the brokered CD rates
so as you can see the treasury rates and
brokered CD rates have been increasing
mm-hmm
and then the last page is just kind of
an average of the CD rates
that we've been seeing so you have three
months six months nine months 12 months
18 months and then our two year CDs that
we've been seeing
so I will tell you that this is a little
outdated now and if there's interest I
can get current CD rates
if there's any interest in reinvesting
some of that money
okay Miss Manny thank you very much
um
board members any questions I noticed
that
um
after asking if there are any questions
but in terms of Investments of funds I
noticed that those three CDs are
uh becoming due this year do we want to
take any action regarding
uh renewal of those or
any changes
I'm on page looking at page 59 there
Mr Harris I'm driving this is Donnie how
much money
on hcd each CD is 250 000 dollars
uh the annual yield uh 2.8 percent 2.9
3.1 percent on those three
one is due in March I would I would make
a motion that we we renew those as they
expire
okay
uh for the same period of time I think
these were
uh yes we stacked we staggered them yes
yes we did yes yes
uh any discussion about the
I guess that we can take that as a
motion but any discussion about that
there are three CDs 250 miles
I'm sorry oh it was Miss quillin was
that you seconding
second yes okay uh any motion thank you
any further discussion
so the motion is to renew these
uh as they become due
and
for the same yeah okay for the same yep
that's what I wanted to know Donnie is
that okay for the same time frame as we
had before
yes let's keep them staggered yeah okay
okay and it might not be exactly with
the same CD with the same Banks
um but we can do another CD ladder and
do the same thing
okay okay because I'm sure that floats
along with other things but uh I know
the bank has always tried to get us the
maximum return
on those monies so uh any further
discussion about
renewing those Investments those
particular ones
so there is a motion on the floor so uh
I would ask Miss Gilmer if she would
pull the board to
find what they're
answer is or
Rita yes Bill Harris yes Gus Jansen yes
Willie Cochran yes Mary quillin
yes
Bruce Prather
yeah
and Donald Bradley
yes
okay that motion has passed
uh is there any further discussion since
we have MS Manny here concerning the
bank or the escrow amounts distributions
right
okay then well Ms Manning we thank you
very much for this report even though I
know that it's uh
a month old but that's not your fault
it's uh you know the fact that you know
we didn't meet last month so uh we do
appreciate you and the bank uh taking
care of our money
and I guess we'll see you all next
quarter
yes I guess it's when we do that okay
sounds good okay goodbye thank you
okay can we take a short break
and maybe 10 minutes or so so
resume the meeting in 10
.
10
find my items here we're gonna
assume meetings
do we have everyone yeah okay everyone
is back okay we'll go back on the record
uh our next item is number three it's a
petition from Key Rock Energy LLC
for the establishment one one the
establishment of key Rock five the seal
Gob production unit
two pooling interest in the subject unit
um and number three designate the
applicant as a unit operator for the
subject unit
the unit is ky-5 the docket number
vgov
22-1115-4252 we'd ask all persons who
want to speak to this item to please
come forward introduce themselves
may it please the board of Freddie
Mullins appearing on behalf of key Rock
Energy LLC and to my right I have Mr
Morgan paint uh key Rock Energy and his
right
um Mark Allman key Rock Energy
thank you
anyone else
uh the record will show there are no
others present so you may proceed Mr
chair we would call uh Mr pate
I do
you make proceed thank you sir Mr Peyton
please state your name and by whom
you're employed Morgan p e Rock Energy
LLC and what is your job description
from geology and as key Rock Energy LLC
authorized to conduct business in the
Commonwealth of Virginia yes and is
there a bond on file with this
department has that also correct yes and
you're familiar with uh docket number
4252 this application that's before the
board yes and this is for a colbed
methane well is that correct uh yes
and is this unit located in the North
coal bed gas field yep and how many
acres does it contain
234.3 uh and can you tell the board what
is the key Rock plans to do if this
application is granted well we will
submit and finalize the permit
application to drill the well we will
drill down into the mind out job owns
team of deepmind 41
um we will do that uh
under the directions of Virginia gas and
oil and MSHA because it's an act of mine
once the well is completed we will put
equipment on site to flare the gas to
generate environmental credits
and you said this was the Jawbone stream
is that correct yes sir now as far as uh
the gas on a ship in in this unit is it
uh has key Rock obtained the lease for
this entire unit proposed unit yes and
is uh is intervest uh gas do they own
all the gas in the unit yes sir
and how is the intervest informed of
what we're doing here uh certified mail
receipt return receipt requested and we
also ran a newspaper in
and has the notice uh with DOT with the
associated documentation been filed with
this board yes to the best of your
knowledge are there any unknown owners
in this unit no
and as key Rock Energy uh how much of
the unit does key Rock currently have
under lease 100 and you're seeking to
voluntarily pool that entire 100 today
is that correct yes what is the proposed
depth of the whale
803 feet and do you know the estimated
reserves uh 586 mmcs
all right and you're familiar with the
projected well cost is that correct yes
sir and did you participate in the
preparation of the AFE file with this
application yes and that's Exhibit C to
the application is that correct correct
and what is the estimated dry whole cost
195
000 all right
and are you asking the board to create a
sealed uh Gob drilling unit and to pull
that unit yes and as we said before the
pooling would be voluntary is that
correct correct and you're not you're
not having any escrow escrow
requirements is that correct no sir
and are you asking the board's name key
rock as the operator for this unit yes
all right Mr fade in your opinion if the
board grants uh the application before
today would it prevent waste promote
conservation and protect correlative
rights yes all right that's all the
questions that I have for Mr Pate okay
fine uh questions from board members
um this very Fraser uh
go ahead
is this a
a a gobwell that is being drilled ahead
of an active mining operation and
exactly what this is
uh no sir this is a cobwell being
drilled behind a set of seals in a
sealed area of an active mind oh
please you're flaring the gas right uh
correct
um part of the reason if if this gas in
this mine were pipeline quality gas it
would be suitable to to sell the gas
into the pipeline but
um we don't see that in hardly any
active minds and so we approach these
Minds from the standpoint that we will
flare for for credits and sell those uh
instead of putting gas into the pipeline
yeah I understand I mean uh initially I
wasn't sure whether or not you were
drilling ahead of an active uh operate I
have to ask the mining operation to get
rid of the gas when they were mining but
uh what what you're doing you're you're
getting back into the Gob area
correct
okay any other questions I'm sorry were
you through Mr Prather
thank you okay thank you uh any other
questions
okay you may continue
that's all the uh evidence that we'd
have in regards to that petition Mr
chair okay
uh anything else uh
the
board will act on the motion
oh we need emotion yeah
made a motion to approve the petition as
presented uh is there a second
second
okay
thank you Miss Quinlan
yes
Bill Harris yes yes Jansen yes Billy
Cochran yes Mary Quillen
yes
yes and Donald Bradley
yes
okay but Donnie has abstained
okay fine but we do have enough for that
motion to pass okay so that's been
approved thank you sir sure uh we move
on now to the next item this is item
number four
and uh
this is
read that a petition from Key Rock
Energy LLC for well location exception
for unit key Rock number five uh located
in the North quad uh Irvington
magisterial district of Dickinson County
Virginia
uh this docket item is vgob
22-1115-4253 it has all those who want
to speak to this petition to uh please
come forward
thank you Mr chair Mr Pate uh could you
I'm sorry would you go ahead and
announce who's it would be Mr Pate okay
and you would you afraid
okay fine so Mr Mullins and Mr pate
okay fine thank you and we would call Mr
Pate fine thank you go ahead all right
Mr Page you've previously answered uh
questions uh regarding petition 4252 is
that correct yes sir and would your
answers uh for petition 4253 be the same
as as you gave in four two five two yes
sir and four two five three is for uh an
exception to location is that correct
correct and key rock is proposing that
Kira what we call Key Rock number five
would be placed within
980 feet of intervest operating well
number
bc3971 is that correct correct and
you're asking the board to give an
exception to the thousand feet
limitation found in the Virginia code
section of
45.2-1616. yes sir and do you believe or
you have the opinion uh that the
granting of this application would
prevent waste protect Coral correlative
rights and provide for the maximum safe
recovery of the mineral reserves to
underline the Commonwealth yes sir
and it is also your opinion that the
proposed well at its proposed location
is necessary to effectively and
efficiently drain a portion of the
common sources of the reservoir
underlying the unit yes sir
and you're asking this board to enter in
order to enable well number key Rock
number five to be drilled and depicted
as in the application yes sir
that would be our evidence Mr chairman
okay any questions from board members
uh yes Mr chairman I have a question
in their allegation of facts on page one
or two under item 2.2 you indicate that
the distance limitation is not feasible
for the unit described in exhibit a
because there is no legal location
if I refer to your map page
it sticks in their application where
it's been numbered but it's the uh the
plat map there there's a keyword pay
wide number five well
if you move that well just slightly to
the West could you not meet the
thousand foot limitation if you just
move the wheel slightly
it would be there there are legal
locations is what I'm getting at within
this unit to drill this well is that not
correct
the location is fairly tight it's off
Liza Gap Road if we I'm trying to orient
myself if we moved it to the east we
would encroach upon a stream drainage if
we moved it West my concern was if we
built a location at that point we would
be cutting the toe off of a slope and I
would rather not do that and risk a rock
slide or not a rock slide but a you know
dirt coming down on us
so so there so there are legal locations
that could be drilled within the unit so
the reason for your exception is due to
this topography
so I think historically these type of
applications is coming from the board
have been provided with some topographic
maps and showing some limits to those
elements that may be impacting to your
location
I'd ask that maybe we provide something
along those lines it shows the reasons
and your reason be for some reason other
than there's not a legal location
because you can meet the legal location
at some expense that maybe more than
you're willing to do the well at or at
some safety factor that you're
want to bring it to cost and that would
be your reason as opposed to no legal
location so there would be a reason for
that if we had all if you were
surrounded by Wells within a thousand
foot that would be an illegal location
in my opinion the board agreeing with
that interpretation uh yes we have uh in
the past have been
normally provided with
some type of uh
a map showing Contours or whatnot
uh
you owe what a 980 feet from VC 3971 yes
sir I think that's where we are
uh puts the boards
what's the board start on this I know
that
yeah I'd prefer that we had an
application that reflected the the
reason other than not a legal location
have there's revisions made to that
application
and won't uh uh just so that I
understand the board uh uh the uh
it would be for an obeasable location
right you could you could you could come
up with a variety of reasons uh going
forward but in this particular case it
sounds like from what Mr H stated there
was there's some steep slopes involved
there's a stream to the east which you
couldn't move it to the east because
you've got other whales to the east but
you don't have any Wheels nearby to the
West
but the reason should be something
besides
not a legal location available in this
case in my opinion because you could
it's just like Statewide spacing we
could space the whales out if there
weren't any Wells drilled you could
space them out but if you needed to be
inference upon another will for a reason
the reason would be
some other reason
understood that makes sense and we'll be
glad to make those changes Mr chair yeah
uh is that satisfactory or do we need to
have them come back at the next meeting
uh I'll leave that to the board's
discretion whether we want to approve
that with the staff's approval of
whatever they submit
um you can do that so are we getting a
yes from the staff that that is
acceptable to do yes that they would do
that okay if you have a problem with it
you'll bring it back yes great so so if
that's okay then it's under the
condition that you will provide that to
the board yes sir for our records okay
uh so I will entertain a motion in terms
of this
project and this companies make the
motion since I had the question I'll
make the Motions that we approve the
application uh with the stipulation that
they will submit revisions to the staff
for approval which indicates the uh
the reviser reasoning and additional
supporting documentation for that reason
okay Mr Jensen thank you do we have a
second for that motion
okay that's threat did any further
discussion
okay so the motion is for approval
pending the not pending but assuming
that uh this additional material will be
submitted to the board
uh uh he would
hold the board please Mrs Gilbert
did
I'm sorry
yeah yeah he did he did State the motion
I guess could you mention them could you
state the motion again just to make sure
we have it on record yeah I would uh
make the motion that we approve the
application with the stipulations that
additional materials provided to the
staff for review uh with a reasoning
other than uh
Statewide spacing there's no legal
Statewide spaces available and they
provide whatever this documentation is
deemed necessary to demonstrate that
okay do you want to give a time limit on
that 30 days is that can is that
something that can be done yeah do it as
quickly as they want to do it it doesn't
need to come back in front of the board
in my opinion that the staff is unless
the staff has an issue with it if staff
wants or to prove it they can bring it
back they can recommend it to come back
okay
uh yes uh do you still Yes okay we're
still good uh
yes yes
Mr friend yes Mrs Whalen
yes
sir yes
I think he's interested
uh yes and I would I can't speak for him
but uh I think he has been abstaining
uh particular
issues okay so I guess we'll move on to
the oh I'm sorry the motion is approved
I guess I need to say that and again if
you all would submit that yes sir yes
sir be glad to all right uh the next
item is uh item number five
and it's a petition from keybar Key Rock
Energy LLC for the one the establishment
of key Rock number one a seal Gob unit
two pooling of interest in subject unit
and three designate the applicant as the
unit operator for the subject unit
the unit would be ky-1
docket number is vgov
22-1220 Dash
4254 we'd asked all parties who want to
speak to this item to please introduce
themselves Brady Mullins appearing on
behalf of key Rock Energy LLC and I'll
have Mr Morgan pay testified okay and
just remember you all have already been
signed in I've been sworn in sorry
you may proceed thank you sir Mr Pate
can you please state your name
Morgan paint and how are you employed Mr
Pate uh by key Rock energy and what is
your job description geologist and is
key Rock Energy LLC authorized to
conduct business in the Commonwealth of
Virginia yes sir and is there a bond on
file with the Virginia Gas and Oil board
for key Rock yes sir and you're familiar
with this application 4254 is that
correct yes sir and this is for a coal
bed methane wheel yes and is this unit
located in the North coal bed gas field
yes and how many acres does it contain
482
all right and can you uh tell them uh
exactly what key Rock plans to do if
this if this application is granted uh
this will be drilled into the uh sealed
Gob area of deepmind 41 for the purpose
of extracting Coal Mine methane and
flaring it at the surface for the
generation of environmental credits and
this is uh this this will be drilling
into the job balance theme is that
correct correct
and uh have you obtained leases for a
portion of this unit yes sir and has
that uh that has been with the intervest
is that correct correct and just so that
the board understands this is kind of an
unusual issue Mr Pate is it's your
understanding that intervest actually
has all of the area least correct
and has there been discussions with
intervests and their counsel Mr Scott as
to how to proceed with this particular
application yes sir and was it
determined uh after those discussions
that uh there would be a request for uh
pooling opportunities for these other
owners that have already leased with
intervest yes okay
and how is intervest informed of this
proceeding in-person certified mail
return receipt requested and
advertisement
and uh the key Rock Energy they have
what percentage of the unit do they have
or are you under lease with intervests
88.8 all right and the other owners that
have the aforementioned leases with
intervest what percentage do they
constitute 11.2 and they're all listed
on exhibit B3 of the application is that
correct correct and as we said all those
owners are already under lease with
internet correct
all right and how were these Unleased
donors informed of this proceeding a
certified mail return receipt requested
all right and do you have uh uh there
were several loans for whom the
certified mailing was not claimed is
that correct correct and what the key
Rock then do to notify these Unleashed
owners we were in a notice in the
Dickinson stock all right and have you
heard anything from any of these
Unleashed owners that were listed uh in
the
advertisement no sir
all right to the best of your knowledge
are are there any unknown owners in this
unit no
and what percentage of the unit are you
seeking to pull today 100 so you're so
you can do all of it including the uh
these owners listing on exhibit B3 yes
now are you requesting that the board
established a procedure where all the
parties list on B3 shall have the right
to do one of the options listed in the
application yes and is that in section
4D of the application yes
and what lease terms would you be
offering these owners uh identical to
the lease we have with intervest okay
and what's the proposed death of this
whale 550 foot
and do you know the estimated Reserves
in 1030 mmcs
and uh you're familiar with the
projective well cost uh is that correct
yes sir and you participate in the
preparation of the AFE for this
application yes sir and what's the
estimated drive old cost of this web
approximately 227 thousand dollars
and are you asking the board to create a
sealed Gob unit and to further pool that
unit yes and to establish these uh
cooling options which allow for
voluntary and involuntary pooling yes
sir
and are you asking the board's name
keyrock as the operator of this unit yes
and in your opinion if the board grants
your application today would it prevent
waste promote conservation and protect
correlative rights yes all right that's
all the questions that I have Mr
chairman let me just ask you a question
I know you talked about publishing in
the paper yes sir normally we have in
our record a some type of proof of
publication was that issued from the
paper do you know yes sir it was that's
actually been filed you should have a
copy of that okay I didn't see it I may
have missed it
okay
the pack that went out before before
that but there is we do have a proof of
publication okay thank you okay uh board
members are there any questions
uh I've got a question Mr Prater yes
yeah is this is this well going to be
550 feet
yes sir
um don't you think that maybe it's 550
feet depending on where this well is
located particularly on details and
things don't you think you're going to
get some oxygen
instead of methane down there are times
in in what you're uh doing it won't be a
hundred percent methane I wouldn't think
oh yeah
these shallow these shallow zones are
fractured pretty good and you can get
all you can get oxygen down there from
our atmosphere at that depth uh usually
people try to have these dips it's maybe
800 or a thousand feet before you start
figuring that you can completely
pick up the methane
uh we fully expect to get Co2 nitrogen
and some small part of oxygen back with
the methane stream we see that in the
vast majority of all of our active Minds
uh that we're on we also have uh the
Mind itself going to monitor their
oxygen at the seals and I believe that
will be part of the MSHA plan Yes We
additionally we do not pull very hard on
these mines because what you're
describing if we were to pull oxygen
across the seals and dilute the oxygen
in the workings of the mind that would
not be good so we're very careful with
that and we have monitoring equipment on
Surface and monitoring in the mind uh
while we're doing this I don't expect
greater than 60 percent CH4 uh from this
hole uh and I I think that has more to
do with the the underground workings and
the ventilation of the mine as much as
it does the depth of the hole
but you are correct we we will not get
100 methane all this well
did that answer your question Mr Prather
uh when you start figuring your map hey
you are deleting the oxygen and the air
that is in there from your final figures
on your methane
okay yes
okay uh any other questions
you have a question Mr chairman uh yeah
um Mr Page has stated that your lease
terms if I understand it correctly you
do have some Unleashed parties in this
unit technically correct I guess there's
some people who have signed leases for a
separate type of cobed methane lease
with intervesting right also have
releases that
um for whatever reason they're not part
of your project at this point in time
right so I don't know if those are
people who've been pooled in the past or
if there's a variety of reasons why
there's those leases aren't being
assigned to you you mentioned that your
lease terms were the same as invest
could you maybe expand on what those
lease terms are specifically uh it was a
paid up lease
um I I hate to guess off the top of my
head because this was over a year ago
but we did have an initial upfront
payment for the lease uh 12 and a half
percent royalty on the sale of the
credits uh it's a three-year lease
um
uh right to renew the lease at so much
per acre I believe
uh Access Road surface use electricity
is allowed
pooling is allowed
assignment is not allowed
and there is a depth restriction on the
lease specific to the jaw bone scene
um
and there is an additional Clause where
royalty owners would be allowed a second
royalty stream if electricity was
generated off the gas as opposed to just
flaring
um
and that is mostly the least
so these are the same these terms you
contacted all these people again during
your due diligence and offered them the
same lease term to sign a lease with QRS
there has not there has not been and Mr
Pate can correct me I don't believe
there has been any notification with
them because there has been some
confusion
uh between us and intervest because
it's one lawyer thinks that their lease
allows them to enter into a pooling
voluntarily and Mr Scott is wary of that
because they don't want to be
responsible for passing on the payments
uh
and so it was finally decided the best
way to try to to deal with this
situation because we fully expect to be
told we've already signed a lease
to actually have the options to show
them uh uh whether or not they would uh
you know willingly participate or not
it's a very confusing situation all of
the interface leases allow for polling I
understand and it was my argument that
we really didn't need to to go to them
okay
I guess uh where I think I have a
problem as a board member is you're
asking this board to
approve a lease term to these Unleashed
people because they're going to be
deemed Unleashed through this hearing
but did they actually get notice of the
hearings yes they all got individual
notes yes sir we notified all of them
you did not contact them individually a
few discussed with them what was done
uh we were hoping to convince intervests
that we didn't need to do it but that
that fell through
okay
but they all have been notified either
through certified mailings or through
publication yeah one of my questions are
going to be what kind of response did
you get from these people did they just
not one of the lease or do they not
understand or but you haven't doesn't
sound like you've actually talked to any
of these people about what we're doing
and we've not received any contact from
them and we needed we wanted to be sure
of what our path was going forward
before we tried to leaseless in
um we could we can discuss that a little
bit more just in the terms of the I
guess the historic
police terms this board is approved in
the past has been something similar to
what the industry has done in a standard
type cobit methane well
which is uh
generally there's a an agreed to payment
to these people dollars per acres for a
paid up term of a lease plus a 1 8
royalty on the amount of gas produced in
this case we're talking about an energy
credit can you sort of expand on how
this Energy Credit is going to work how
that would compare to a typical cobed
methane production well can you give us
any depleted on that we'll cover methane
well they'll measure their gas
production monthly
um and they will sell it into the
pipeline at a changing price fluctuating
price year over year and the royalty
owners would get an eighth of that that
what we do
um under the California ARB Air Resource
Board protocol when we start these
projects they can run from either six
months to 18 months and we set that
initial time frame normally we set it at
12 months and so from the day of first
production we flare gas for 12 months
the end of that 12 months the the data
we collect from flaring the gas goes to
a verification a third-party verifier
they typically spend three to four
months uh clean we're going over all the
data making sure everything's above
board they submit their report to ARB
Air Resource Board of California they
issue credits which we sell on the open
market credits have been trending at
close to 1770 1780 per credit uh what
that means in terms of CBM production is
that that would be about seven dollars
and fifty cents per mcf if it were going
into the pipeline I don't know what the
price of gas is in Virginia but I think
that's higher Additionally the neither
key Rock nor the mine nor the the
mineral owners could sell this gas into
a pipeline the CH4 is far too low we
would have to to put up some very big
equipment to scrub out the CO2 in the
nitrogen in terms of royalty payments if
the initial reporting period is one year
a royalty owner could expect to be paid
say 18 months thereafter and then after
that initial royalty payment
royalties thereafter would occur at a
12-month intervals
and so it is not the same as getting
paid on a month by month pipeline sales
basis this is you know the accumulation
of you know many many metric tons of CH4
being flared the generation of credits
on that over the course of six months to
a year
the sailing of those credits on the open
market and then the royalty generated
off the sale of those credits
um this is follow-up to that I think uh
this board is baby approved one other
application in the past neither staff
can chime in on this
for a uh Energy Credit or carbon credit
type of situation with Pocahontas gas
and similar lease terms is that correct
staff anybody speak to that I can't
remember I wasn't on the board at the
time
yes that was Pocahontas gas we there was
one that came for the board the event
shaft 16.
and that one was
testified at that time the operator that
that was paid on an mmbtu basis like in
the same typical lease terms that would
see forget so it wasn't paid on the on
the carbon credit basis it was paid on
the volume of gas produced yes that was
the agreement with the with those two
companies with the operator and the
company with the player and unit so
that's what that board order reflects
that that will be paid under I mean
as opposed to a carbon credit basis
that's great
you use
methane basis
if because your debt is probably deeper
than 1200 feet
on your cone that you're
mine
so once you get below 1200 feet you
usually can sell your methane
so I'm not sure what that yeah I'm not
sure yet
just a little further on on this these
terms here that
you're asking for to
put forth in an order uh for payment
which is somewhat different we've done
in the past I guess maybe uh might lead
on their attorney here if we have the
authority to
set those terms that aren't maybe set
forth in regulation at this point in
time
I have to admit I would need to look
into that
yeah I guess the other part of this is
you're talking about a 12 month to an
18-month period before
an individual gas owner would receive
any benefit from this uh well I could
happen in that time frame understand
that what would be what would your
record reporting requirements be to the
department to the staff here on the the
gas that's actually produced out of this
do you have have you gone through that
we definitely monitor uh we monitor
everything at 15 minute intervals so we
can report uh daily mcf produced uh
total gas and CH4
so you can report on a monthly basis to
the department how much actual methane
you're producing out of the well on a
monthly basis yes sir we can report that
and we can report it in metric tons of
CH4 and then you know carry that forward
to the uh you know the actual carbon
credit which is a metric ton of CO2 and
so all of that can be done weekly
monthly daily
okay
I guess my concern is for someone who
uh has
I guess not signed
in agreement
well I guess there are people who are
deemed to be leased from
not deemed to be lease who released with
uh intervests
uh I guess I'm just a little confused
that carries over to what you all are
doing or I guess what bothers me is is
sort of uh uh
what what Gus Jansen is saying if if
they did not respond of course I know
sometimes we lease folks that uh I mean
we will pool folks uh that don't appear
or have not responded
uh
I guess those terms
I'm not sure what I'm saying I guess I'm
just a little concerned I'm concerned
about it too though the terms being
different than what we normally approve
for this type of
of a uh an agreement those people will
have
If This Were approved those people sin
would have two royalty streams because
it's my understanding that the inner
best Wells are still active and still
producing so they are almost certainly
currently getting a royalty check
monthly and then
when I viewed this it looked more like a
top lease but intervests did not want to
go that direction
um in that sense if they were pooled
they would still get their monthly
royalties as long as intervests
continued their production and that this
would be a a second royalty stream on
top of that
but it would be the same role of the
elders regardless whether it was the
original well or this new situation
is that correct
well for the concern Mr Prater is how
are we basing the the royalty stream is
it based on the actual covet methane gas
produced or is it based on the Energy
Credit Revenue
which we've never done that in the past
I would assume that since uh
you can't sell
like ratio
say that again can you say that again Mr
President
well the thing about it is your gas
at the child adapt has got uh
well I found oxygen nitrogen Etc
uh things that shouldn't be there it
should all be CH4 and anyways what's
your problem is what the problem is
I don't see how you could make a a new
set of royalty owners
out of shallow gas and the other thing
is can you sell that and can you say
exactly how much methane you're
producing and how much
nitrogen or how much oxygen how much
whatever else do you leave
I mean as far as I'm concerned it looks
to me like a few signs the original lead
in the colbed methane lease that it
would cover this too
regardless of what kind of payment it is
I think they've made that point Mr
pressure that they believe that the
existing leases to cover that the issue
is is that NFS does not want to assume
the cost and liability of paying these
people as a pass-through on their leases
they refer that that happened directly
from Key rock as opposed to being paid
again key right paying interest paying
the owners yeah so whatever key rock is
asking us to do is to set those terms
different from what the terms are in the
lease with intervest
the same people
the the well operators paying the same
people you're paying
yes yes
we're just paying them a different under
a different basis
is this board comfortable with setting
that basis today
in in the way they're presented to us
and can that be documented
within the scope of their regulations
that's why I asked the attorney general
what his opinion was
yep
um
so do we anticipate other
I've got two more I'm getting ready to
file
and those are the same situations same
situation yes sir they will be fully
leased but
uh uh fully leased uh by intervest to
keep Rockville will be other individuals
that that intervest has least
we're not dealing with any individuals
or somebody's outside the lease
they just haven't signed us at least
specific for generating carpet credit
that is correct
foreign
ER ought to pay
the Royals period
how do you handle it I don't know
is there some
industry standard for this type of
arrangement I mean or is this something
that that you will have done before or
that I mean I've totally knew
all right I don't believe we have done
this before I've been a part of a lot of
our leases and most of them are with
the the mineral owner but we also have
overriding leases too like the mine
operator as part of being a part of
their mind
my knowledge we don't have
a lessor who's getting a second royalty
stream on the sale of their Obed methane
gas whereas we're Leasing
The Entity we have situations where in
Illinois
that we have specifically and only
leased at the CMM from a scene
and that that royalty owner also has
conventional gas leased so there's a
division there
um this one is unique to me
yeah I think I think the other issue is
that this board has already once
approved a methodology for payment
under a similar type of
well
with Pocahontas gas and we're getting
ready to prove a new type of payment
here do we are we fine with that as a
board having multiple ways people are
being paid
Pocahontas yes owned all of them
I believe they had some Unleashed and
unknowns in their unit if I'm not
mistaken
yeah but they they representing
themselves
and on the uh
the credits
I'm not sure what your point is Mr Mr
Price
why why we got two royalties
owners
I mean I can understand it if you know
you bought it from them or something
like that
but basically what you're doing
you're using his leads
for your credits
and you want to be able to pay your
credit card in front of us today Mr
President for the board to approve
we're going to deem these people least
today under an order and that's how
they're going to get paid they're not
going to get paid under the terms of any
lease pre-existing with their best
they're asking us to do something
different
that's the reason I'm asking all these
questions
yeah Mr President I think I've ever done
this before
yeah uh Mr Ratliff was that you wanting
to chime in
no no
I would ask staff
I know that the gas companies have to
report monthly but as the statute say
they have still paid
you know uh this last one before me so
I'm thinking I might be done in a half
hour
but if you guys want to go somewhere you
can okay
my follow-up is if I heard you correctly
you said that everyone was notified by
certified mail or
publication
do you have to know
unlocatable people in this unit
we have we have we did not have any
unknowns Mr Ratliff there were several
uh that did not pick up uh their uh uh
certified mailings uh I have to not
through representation of key Rock but
through other duties that I have as
commissioner for Council for Dickinson
County I've actually dealt with two of
the people I know they get mail at that
address because they got my mail
whenever that was going on
uh but they didn't uh they didn't see
fit to pick it up
okay
it looks to me like there's nothing that
the attorney general or somebody in the
legal end
ought to make a decision about how we
want to handle it
Mr chair I can look into this question
and get back with you as soon as I can
I'm sorry I'm not in the position to
answer it today
yeah we yeah we probably need to do some
you know this this type of arrangement
being new to the board uh that's the uh
part of the issue I think
uh and
I'm not sure what
uh
what best to suggest here
um
we we want to have a procedure
established by the board that the
board's comfortable with because like I
said we have we've already applied for
the easy ones
the the with the the key Rock Wells the
rest of them are in the same situation
that this is so we want to be sure to do
whatever makes it more comfortable
well let me try to make a motion let's
make a make a motion that
the board uh would seek some advice from
our attorney general's office on
determining I'm gonna read this directly
from the statute here under
45.2-1620 pool of interest in drilling
units part e
some clarification under any person who
does not make an election under the
polling order she'll be deemed to have
at least his gas in all interests to the
gas or oil operator is a pool in order
provides
so that's very great and very broad
about what our order is going to say yes
so I think we need some direction to how
that order needs to read
to determine
how these people were going to deem
least
and we would certainly solicit any input
from the heroic personnel and how they
would
have that order written to do that
see these people got the original lease
from the original Royal here the
original Last Thor
that that's that's where they're getting
their interests it's just that they
don't want to make the payments
through the uh primary left forward
that's correct I think that's accurate
we would gladly play interfaced in the
board order intervest
I'm not sure if we could without their
representative being here I'm not sure
we can do that so expect they would have
a thing or two to say about that yeah
I'd say so uh I suspect we probably
ought to
uh is table this issue is at the
best
language to use in this case number five
until the uh
board actually can and and the division
of gas and oil uh
can seek some interpretation of this
that would apply
um
and uh Mr Lansing is that appropriate do
you think that we just wait not wait but
just not
approve this item at the moment yes Mr
chair I think it's appropriate to table
the matter for further advisement
okay okay do uh can we say 30 days 60
days I know that my class won't tell me
the sooner the better so I'm sure of
that yeah yeah uh the the problem is I'm
not even sure who we approach
uh I guess we'll have to get our
Collective heads together to to
um I would suggest that the the operator
maybe make a suggestion to the
attorney's general office and seek some
kind of guidance from then and from the
staff itself
we can we can submit a proposed order uh
and put the provisions that uh Mr paid
has uh uh testified to
and it's always easier to nitpick the
what somebody's saying well at least we
have something in front of us to uh so
can you do that sometime
uh there's no guaranteed are we meeting
next month
okay we will have a meeting next month I
don't know if we can do this in 30 days
but we'll have something submitted uh
well within that time period of
I assume to submit it to miss Gilmer and
and she'll pass it on to the appropriate
appropriate parties yes
uh is that acceptable to everyone that
we
uh you do when we postpone tonight we
give go ahead
I'm not looking at a calendar but the 30
days made
it before or after the next meeting I
think it'd be worded better if we put it
on next month's docket
okay
that's a good suggestion that we put it
on next month's docket and then if you
will uh submit to the board uh actually
Ms Gilmer your proposal and then we'll
have something to look at and review
prior to the meeting
and Mr Jensen just so that I'm clear the
uh what what uh you in particular are
looking for is uh uh laying down exactly
what uh uh Mr Pate testified to as far
as how uh royalty would be paid
yeah I think that's the question I think
you know this to uh
you know I just want the board to be
aware that we've approved one of these
already and maybe we may be doing
something different now
so we just need to make sure we're on
the same page is it possible for that
I'm not familiar with that is it
possible for us to have a copy of that
so that we can see how they did it to
see if it's something that might be yeah
I'm sure yeah okay yeah talk with staff
and then after they can direct you to
that particular order okay in fact we'll
probably need to review that also since
it was
different so uh we will
uh postpone that item until our next
meeting and Mr chair out also asked that
you postpone uh petition 4255 which was
which is uh in connection with uh this
petition yeah uh the one he's referring
to is petition from Key Rock Energy LLC
it was for a well location exception for
unit key Rock number one this one that
we're just describing uh that docket
number is
vgob22-1220-4255 that will also be uh
postponed I guess it's appropriate
language until our next meeting yes sir
okay
thank you
thank you okay thank you all for
attending and and again if you'll get
with staff they can get you the
information that you need thank you very
much thank you I think you need a motion
Mr chairman
uh there's a motion okay
motion to defer this for next month
okay I'll accept that if
so so now who is that Donald is that
Donnie
yes yes okay yeah we can barely hear you
so uh
so we'll entertain that motion since
that makes it official we have a motion
that we uh postpone these two docket
items number
five and six we already read numbers if
I need to do that again uh the
gob422-1220
that's four two five four and vgov
22-1220-455 I'm sorry four two five five
that we postponed those till our next
meeting
so is there a second
I'll second okay uh it was second by
August Ganson uh let's uh Paul to the
board if you would miss Gill
yes
Bruce Prather
yes
indomie ratlin
yes okay the smoking pass thank you
gentlemen thank you very much
Paul thanks actually
okay I understand that items uh seven
and eight uh have been withdrawn is that
correct
oh stats or the seven and eight
okay the staff elaborate on if the
resolved the conflict between prior
order that was
put in
a second ordinance approved by the order
that created this conflict is that is
the conflict been resolved I'll ask
Minister's works this week to accomplish
I haven't received any information on
that kind of thing I received with
notification the two petitions have been
withdrome
okay my understanding this is Mark
Schwartz my understanding is that
because we had filed petitions uh and uh
to vacate that we couldn't just
unilaterally withdraw them uh what has
happened is uh the problem that we had
or a problem that we had with the orders
was that there were going to be joint
operators with AEI so as I understand
it's 60-day notices have gone out uh
from Coronado to AEI to plug the AEI
Wells and when we learned that this
issue was going to be resolved in 60
days as a matter of course we thought it
was more efficient to just withdraw our
more our motion to vacate the two orders
both of those orders provided as soon as
the AEI Wells are plugged which we
anticipate is going to be in 60 days the
Pocahontas would become the sole
operator so it solves our problem so
that's why we moved the board vacate we
were told
by share and it makes sense to me that
uh we couldn't just unilaterally would
draw the organizations we needed Awards
permission to do that and we're asking
you the last draw the Motions to vacate
because for the reasons I've just stated
okay then so we will if the board will
entertain an emotion
uh to withdraw those items so the reason
uh stated by Mr sort
do we have that motion
okay it's been uh actually uh Miss Ratt
made the motion before you did Miss
Quillen would you consider seconding
second thank you
uh any further discussion any further
questions
okay uh would you pull the board please
thank you Mr ant yes Mr Harris yes Mr
Jansen yes Mr Cochran yes Mrs quailin
yes Mr franger
yes and Mr Ratliff
Mr Ratliff
yes
okay thank you
okay thank you Mr George uh do we
need to move on or are we done I guess
we're done
no no no I'm sorry with Mr Sports okay
okay good seeing you again
okay thank you yeah thank you the board
to receive an update on board and
division activities from the staff
they're just a couple things I was going
to mention to everybody
as you know every
everything be renewed but has been
renewed for one year
that the only other item I was going to
mention I know Jeopardy's already gone
over all the escrow numbers I was just
going to mention that I'll be sending
out letters for the achievement list
that'll be as cheated at the end of the
year I'll be sending out letters like I
normally do and last year you all voted
to only send letters out for fifty
dollars or more since that list is
LinkedIn what is that what you want to
follow that that again this year or do
you all want letters sent out to people
who receive one penny I mean I I'll do
whatever you I want to be done but last
year we talked about it and the board
voted 50 or more we would let us out so
what type of response that we get from
that I mean in other words is there any
way of knowing you don't receive much
response and a lot of the letters are
returned
just never picked up or just not or
picked up and not responded to
bed
what kind of cost was associated with
sending out all those letters
was it a thousand or was it 50 years
depends on how man he has been do you
know
number 50 or more then call
the coach there wasn't anything it cut
way down the amount of Landers
but
they will be as jaded I think in October
or November the money will be by the
bank
now this I just I'm seeking your
guidance on what you would prefer that
we do again but then again it's your
time with that number whatever number
you all decide we can stick with that
every year and I won't have to ask you
again or or we can address it every year
I'm just you know checking with you
before I send the Letters Out well I
guess I asked about how what kind of
response we got of course it's your time
I mean it's company time but it's still
your time and Postage and
um
I guess it's probably not a good
question asked about whether or not it's
worthwhile but uh
uh you know if if
I I don't I don't know how to answer
that
uh
uh I will
I make a motion that we send out letters
for those that
have fifty dollars or more
okay
do you want to make that a standing
motion going forward so we don't have to
do it every year
yes okay so Mr Ratliff said made that
motion that we send letters to people
who have more than fifty dollars in
their accounts
uh indicating that that money will be
exceeded to the state
and we'll and that motion is also uh
will be done annually in other words
instead of coming before the board each
time uh we would allow you to just go
ahead and and do that so is there a
second
okay so miss quillin thank you any
further discussion
uh
would you call the board Miss Kelvin
yes Bill Harris yes yes
yes
Mary Quillen
yes Bruce Prather
yes
Indonesia
yes
okay fine uh the emotions is approved
uh any other announcements I understand
we do have a meeting for next month we
do have enough items that will
and so then uh the board will review the
October 2022 minutes for approval that's
been a while
any discussion of the minutes or do I
hear a motion
for approval motion to approve okay
thank you do we have a second
thank you Mr rat okay Miss rat did but
yes we have a motion and a second to
approve the minutes
uh for the October 2022 board meeting uh
and again we'll take a vote if Ms Gilmer
would pull the board
yes Bill Harris yes yes
Billy Doctrine yes Eric Whelan
yes Bruce Prather
yes
and Donnie Ratliff
yes
okay thank you that motion passed uh Mr
Lansing you were on our
agenda at the end of the agenda but I
know we've moved forward and
uh move some of your presentation to the
beginning uh is there something else
that you need I know there are a couple
of things I think one was on uh
for you well that may have been
conflict of interest
um
but the other was electronic meetings
policy
Mr chair everything that I was going to
discuss at the end of the meeting we
moved to the beginning of the meeting
okay Sarah and I had discussed the
possibility of me potentially giving a
full overview of the Freedom of
Information Act and the conflict of
interest act but with the general
assembly session still going on I'm
afraid I'm not going to have time to
come to that so my recommendation would
be if you need foia and Koya training uh
you can do that online through the foia
council and or the Coya Council okay
sounds good thank you very much then
let's leave our staff in the Richmond
office was going to send you all an
email with the links for those two
trainings so that you would be able to
do those online okay then you have in
the past I think so I think y'all are
familiar with yeah logging in and and
electronics yeah yeah so if everybody
would
want to
do that training and then we'll get get
everybody accounted for with that and
and we'll begin till next year okay
sounds good thank you very much is there
anything else
there is a bill that uh senator
uh Acworth and delegate Kilgore put in
on
uh
these tax credits on leading off uh pbh
holes not not production Wheels but vbh
holes and how they're going to handle
that royalty wise you might want to talk
to Mike skippington or will Payne and uh
because they've been at every hearing
when these bills are come up and they
understand them fully so let me leave
some guidance there to since there is a
bill uh that's being considered right
now
this is Mr hackworth's Bill on on
the credits
on methane yes or methane credits
yeah I've seen those
um yeah I've taken out
those deal with bdh holes not production
Wells but there may be some similarities
there to look at
okay
all right
okay
thank you Mr antler uh anything else
uh hearing nothing else and it gets We
Stand adjourned
thank you everyone
thank you Mr chairman you did a
wonderful job
I'm not sure but thank you
yeah yeah you did a great job yeah